User avatar
By eriknben10
Phaedrus wrote:The gas in the pipeline is not liquified. LNG is much smaller volume.

That's not what they say. Didn't know you had inside information.

"As originally planned, the Mariner East 2 20-inch pipeline would transport approximately 275,000 barrels per day of natural gas liquids, primarily propane. This capacity could be expanded to 450,000 barrels a day in the future with additional pump stations.

The 16-inch pipeline would have a capacity of approximately 250,000 barrels per day, for an initial combined capacity of approximately 500,000 barrels a day." ... -east-faq/
User avatar
By eriknben10
sandbagger2 wrote:
Saw this article today. Interesting. ... s-are.aspx

They pulled out of our area about 2 weeks ago. I heard the dispute over the placement of a pumping station was the main dispute at that time. Apparently they got permits for a spot and ended up putting it in a different location but the township is disputing they were notified in advance.

"The dust-up is the latest in a series of controversies Sunoco has encountered over its $2.5 billion, 350-mile-long Mariner East project to transport gas liquids from Marcellus Shale fields in Western Pennsylvania to a terminal in Marcus Hook." ... 70712.html

The people working on the line say road blocks like this give them a nice break, time to go home and see family.
User avatar
By Phaedrus
My mistake. All along I thought this was a natural gas pipeline. :oops:

eriknben10 wrote:
Phaedrus wrote:The gas in the pipeline is not liquified. LNG is much smaller volume.

That's not what they say. Didn't know you had inside information.

"As originally planned, the Mariner East 2 20-inch pipeline would transport approximately 275,000 barrels per day of natural gas liquids, primarily propane. This capacity could be expanded to 450,000 barrels a day in the future with additional pump stations.

The 16-inch pipeline would have a capacity of approximately 250,000 barrels per day, for an initial combined capacity of approximately 500,000 barrels a day." ... -east-faq/
User avatar
By sandbagger2
Letter to the Editor: Why the Mariner East 2 pipeline is so dangerous
To the Times:

The decision by Middletown, Edgmont, Thornbury, Aston and other Delaware County township governments to not oppose the Mariner East 2 pipeline is one that might soon come back to haunt them. At best, their approvals demonstrate a disregard for the environment. At worst, they’ve shown abject contempt for people’s safety, especially considering their flouting of their own township ordinances on pipeline setbacks. As public officials, they have a responsibility to protect their constituents and with all the information that has been presented to them at public meetings about the danger of ME2 and how it differs from other pipelines (like gasoline, crude oil, methane, etc.), it’s going to be very difficult to convince a jury they weren’t aware of the danger to their constituents.

So how is ME2 different from other pipelines?

If a gasoline or kerosene pipeline ruptures, the leak can be seen and smelled. There is danger of an explosion, of course, and the escaping liquids will contaminate soil, streams, and ground water. But people have a good chance of escaping to safety.

The ME2 is quite a different kettle of fish. The natural gas liquids (NGLs) flowing through it at 1,500 PSI are very dangerous materials to pump through a pipeline under pressure. For starters, when the NGLs leak, they expand massively into heavier-than-air gas clouds which hug the ground. Second, there is no “odorant” in the ethane, propane, or butane flowing through the pipeline. Consequently, there is absolutely no way for people living within the danger zone to know the pipe is releasing its highly pressurized contents. If nearby residents are not immediately incinerated in a fireball, they will probably be asphyxiated by the massive cloud of escaping gas. Once it finds an ignition source, dental records will be needed to identify the victims who would be burned beyond recognition.

Assuming you happen to be holding a gas leak detector and you’re awake, Sunoco’s evacuation recommendation is to run. That’s right: Just run away. Don’t start your car because that might ignite the gas. Don’t call 911 because that might also generate a spark. Simply run as fast and as far as you can – up wind – in the snow, rain, or dark ... and hopefully not in the direction of the pipeline. Get a windsock and check it before you dash to safety with your children in your arms. Don’t let your gym membership lapse if you want to have a remote chance of outrunning the cloud of invisible, odorless gas travelling at automobile speeds. Work on your steeplechase skills, too. You’ll need them to hurdle your neighbor’s fence, ford streams, and break through hedges.

Study the terrain in all directions. Know where the obstacles are. Negotiate in advance with your neighbors to lay out evacuation lanes through their property. In the event of “an event,” do your neighbors a solid, and scream as you run. They deserve a chance to live even if their dog treats your lawn like its own personal chamber pot. Perhaps you should even purchase DuPont’s fully encapsulated fire suits with respirators for you and your children to sleep in. Is this exaggeration? Not to the approximately 360 people who have been killed nationwide in the last 20 years from pipeline “accidents.”

Township leaders may not have known how dangerous ME2 was when Sunoco came knocking, but they should have done their due diligence. There certainly is no excuse now to not be aware of the danger. There is also no reason to not change course at this point and oppose its construction. Many townships could pool their money and file suit, but absent that and given their previous approvals, how can officials not be criminally and civilly liable when the wrongful death lawsuits are filed someday soon? They should be worried, and they should certainly increase their insurance coverage, assuming they can get it, something which homeowners’ associations in the vicinity of the pipeline are having difficulty obtaining. Sunoco, after all, has the worst safety record in the pipeline industry, which we’ve gotten a glimpse of recently in Middletown and West Goshen where streams and groundwater have been contaminated even before the pipe bomb becomes operational.

Ken Hemphill, Concord
User avatar
By Phaedrus
Phaedrus wrote:I have a friend who does geological mapping from the air. He can chart soil types. I'll ask him about it, but it may take a while because he lives off the grid and incommunicato for parts of the year.

It may be they want pure gas, but it's also true that the odorant won't be effective.

Infrared cameras work.
User avatar
By sandbagger2
Elected officals seek Sunoco’s assistance for training
By Bill Rettew,

WEST CHESTER>>Three elected officials have joined together to request that Sunoco furnish the county with a 20-inch pipeline simulation unit for first responders to use for training.

State Sen. Tom Killion, R- 9, State Rep. Becky Corbin, R-155, and Michele Kichline, Chester County Commissioner, teamed to write a letter to Joseph McGinn, senior manager, public affairs, of Energy Transfer and the Sunoco Mariner 2 East pipeline project.

The county currently trains with an 8-inch pipe. A mock 20 inch pipe would mimic the pipeline now being constructed in the county.

Several public forums concerning the Sunoco Mariner East 2 pipeline project have attracted as many as 300 residents.

Elected officials are listening to constituents.

“As we are sure you know, safety and preparation are key to being able to properly and effectively respond to any incident related to the pipeline,” reads the letter. “Such a simulation unit would help ensure that Chester County first responders have yet one additional tool in their tool box to help ensure preparedness.”

The now-under-construction Mariner East 2 pipeline would carry volatile liquids including, butane, ethane and propane for 350 miles from Marcellus Shale deposits in Western Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia to the former Sunoco Refinery in Delaware County. Plans call for the pipeline to snake 23 miles through Chester County.

The request is for both above and below ground components. The simulator would likely be housed at the new Chester County Public Safely Training Campus in Coatesville.

“It’s a lot better to have emergency responders having seen the pipeline and type of materials in a safe training environment as opposed to the first time seeing it in an emergency,” Bobby Kagel, county director of emergency services said.

“In our view, providing this type of simulator for our first responders allows them to be well prepared to continue to work with you as partners to ensure that safety of residents of the greater Chester County community continues to be a top priority,” reads the missive.

Chester County residents should feel safe in their homes, Kichline said.

“We want to ensure that Sunoco will provide the proper funding or mechanism for proper training of our first responders,” Kichline said. “This is a different type of pipeline than what already exists.

“Our biggest concern in Chester County is that our citizens are safe. I hope we get what we need to do that.”
User avatar
By breitak67
This business about Sunoco paying to connect residents with compromised wells to public water is a dangerous proposition for their neighbors and those along the path of this extension of the public water lines. Many townships here have ordinances requiring residences within a certain distance of public water or sewer to connect, almost always at residents' expense. I would be pretty cheesed if the end result of Sunoco's mistake is that I had to pay thousands in installation plus $150/quarter to connect my house to the newly-near-by public water.
User avatar
By sandbagger2
Federal court rejects Constitution Pipeline’s lawsuit against NY
AUGUST 18, 2017 | 12:29 PM

A federal appeals court ruled against the Constitution Pipeline Friday, in a challenge it brought against New York State’s denial of a water quality permit.

The decision is a major blow to the embattled project, which was planned to run 121 miles, carrying natural gas from the Marcellus Shale in northeastern Pennsylvania through New York State.

Last May the Constitution Pipeline sued to overturn the permit denial from New York’s Department of Environmental Conservation, which halted the federally-approved project.

In its April 2016 denial, the department said Constitution’s builder, Williams, hadn’t addressed the significant water resource impacts the project would bring, nor had it supplied enough information to show compliance with New York State water quality standards.

U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit sided with the state, saying it acted within its authority to deny the permits.

The project also attracted criticism in Pennsylvania, particularly after the company began clearing trees on private land, while under protection of armed federal marshals. Lynda Farrell of the Chester County-based Pipeline Safety Coalition says the pipeline industry had grown accustomed to assuming a project would move forward after it gets federal approval.

“That’s what the status quo has been. Pipelines had never been a big topic of conversation before. The Marcellus Shale has raised public awareness around whether the regulations in place are conducive to today’s society,” she says. “The public is learning more and more that change is possible. These regulations and processes are not written in stone.”

The New York DEC did not intermediately respond to requests seeking comment Friday.

In an email, Williams spokesman Keith Isbell signaled the company’s next move may be to bring the matter before the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC).

“In today’s decision, the Second Circuit recognized the jurisdiction of the D.C. Circuit, and the D.C. Circuit has recently acknowledged FERC’s authority to make the ultimate decision under the Natural Gas Act,” Isbell writes. “While we would have preferred an immediate path to construction, we are pleased with the court’s resolution of this jurisdictional issue.”
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